The power of Storytelling in video production services - Wishup Business and Remote Work Podcast with Jason Ellinger

When a story catches our attention and engages us, we are more likely to absorb the message and meaning within it than if the same message was presented simply in facts and figures.

Jason is the co-founder of Beard & Bowler and has leveraged storytelling to help his clients hit their financial goals and within the walls of non-profits & purposeful brands.

Check out this amazing interview to learn the power of storytelling and how you can implement it in your marketing campaigns.

Podcast Transcription

00:00:10

Crispino- Hi guys. Welcome back to the business and Remote Work Podcast brought to you by Wishup.

00:00:14

Crispino- I'm your host, Crispino, and today we're joined by one of our favorite clients at Wishup, Jason Ellinger.

00:00:20

Crispino- Jason is a professional filmmaker helping nonprofit organizations achieve their goals through the power of video.

00:00:26

Crispino- So welcome to the show, Jason.

00:00:30

Thank you for having me here. Appreciate it.

00:00:32

Crispino- Thank you for coming on. So how long has it been, Jason, that you've been working with Wishup?

00:00:37

Jason- Ah, man, it's been, it's probably been about a year. Yeah, almost a year, I think.

00:00:44

Crispino- Almost year.

00:00:44

Jason- A year, yeah.

00:00:46

Crispino- That is a long time.

00:00:48

Jason- Yeah, we it was, there was a lot of tasks that were getting undone.

00:00:52

Jason- There's a lot of help that I needed, but it wasn't quite ready for that next employee at the time or the next employee.

00:01:01

Jason- And the VA came probably about the same time, so started expanding beyond my capabilities coming out of the pandemic again.

00:01:09

Jason- So yeah, it was time to expand.

00:01:12

Crispino- That's amazing. Yeah. I've spoken to Sid and he said that he loves working with you and you've made

00:01:18

Crispino- him feel like a family member at Beard & Bowler. So thank you for that.

00:01:23

Jason- Yeah, you know what? That's that's one of the tips that I got when I was bringing them on. Just like make them feel a part of the team.

00:01:31

Jason- Make them feel like they're they're one of the guys. So all the team meetings, he's that. We even invited him to the Christmas party,

00:01:39

Jason- so he joined us like 6:00 PM Eastern, so maybe, yeah 6:00 PM. So he joined us probably like 4 in the morning and

00:01:46

Jason- he's just like asleep. Like I'm so happy to be here. He was that. It was a good to have. He was the life of the party. One can say that.

00:01:53

Crispino- That awesome. Well, it's amazing to have clients like you on board. So that's what keeps us motivated and, you know,

00:02:00

Crispino- wanting to excel. And I'm sure it motivates Siddarth as well to do the job that he does.

00:02:06

Jason- Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

00:02:09

Crispino- Awesome. So Jason, to begin with, can you start off by telling us a bit about yourself,

00:02:13

Crispino- your background and your organization, Beard & Bowler?

00:02:18

Jason- Yeah, Beard & Bowler, commercial filmmaker. We help nonprofits raise funds and awareness through

00:02:24

Jason-the power of storytelling via video and we we just kind of mark it to the nonprofit audience.

00:02:30

Jason- And in doing that it kind of attracts just the level and the quality of our work kind of attracts the right type of for profit client.

00:02:38

Jason- So like we have an agency now and it's they they represent Big Pharma company but it's not

00:02:44

Jason- like one that's dealing with with a lot of opioids it's. They're the anti opioid, so they have a nerve blocker and

00:02:51

Jason- it's just like it kind of matches our ethos still even in the corporate arena. So yes those are the those are the types

00:02:58

Jason- of people that we work with nonprofit and and particular about our for profit clients that we take on, but we do work in

00:03:06

Jason- partnership with with both. And my my background, I started the video company in 07 and just in time for that recession then

00:03:13

Jason- and I launched with what was then considered a luxury item just in time, just in time for that recession.

00:03:20

Jason- So that was a fun few years to navigate. But Fast forward, I was getting married. I had needed a bit more

00:03:28

Jason- stability, maybe some benefits because you know those are hard to come by when you're self-employed and.

00:03:35

Jason- I took out a day job with the news, and I was a hard news photojournalist,

00:03:40

Jason- so I saw a lot of the underbelly of New Jersey, New York, Long Island. But every day I had the 4:00 AM to noon shift.

00:03:48

Jason- So every day it was fire, shooting, stabbings, murders, and that was like.

00:03:53

Jason- What can I do that's going to make a difference in the world and?

00:03:57

Jason- I guess Long story short is that we found that within the walls of nonprofits that we could,

00:04:04

Jason- we could tell that story, particularly the ones that are doing galas or events raising like 6 figures or more.

00:04:09

Jason- Those were a good, good people for us to work with because they could cost justify it with the event expense,

00:04:15

Jason- but then also make their investment back. They sort of really good chance of making their investment back or

00:04:21

Jason- doubling it that night. Because they have, they already have the money in the room. If they're touched by a video

00:04:27

Jason- they may be able to dig deeper and then continue to use it for a fundraising tool with their board, with their

00:04:33

Jason- director of development. That's the big win for us, making sure that they're successful and they get like a big ROI on their investment.

00:04:41

Crispino- And big is that, is that what you put up in your LinkedIn status? I read it over there. We hit our revenue goal within 3 minutes of showing your video.

00:04:50

Jason- Yes.

00:04:50

Crispino- Was that one of these events?

00:04:52

Jason- That was on one of these events that was. Big hospital in Connecticut and they they had 1000 of Connecticut's most

00:05:00

Jason- well to do people and they did a gala and it was this was pre COVID and they did probably.

00:05:07

Jason- I didn't find this out to like a few months later. I didn't even think to ask. But I was like, wait,

00:05:14

Jason- how did it go? How long did it take? Did you hit your revenue goal? I knew that,

00:05:20

Jason- but she's like legit 3 minutes after the end of the video.

00:05:24

Crispino- Wow!

00:05:25

Jason- We hit the goal and then we just exceeded it the rest of the night and that was one example.

00:05:30

Jason- Another one went from, they were raising five 600K in one night and they went up to 1.1 million the following year

00:05:38

Jason- they broke records. An article written about them, their newspaper, when they had the video that we produced from that

00:05:45

Jason- night, and it really does make a difference. We had five people was it was like 11 ish minutes long. I'm like,

00:05:52

Jason- no one's gonna watch, this short film basically. And after each person section was done talking about how this

00:05:59

Jason- organization had helped them through their different programs, they went and they silently stood up on the stage.

00:06:07

Jason- So after the video ended with that power statement faded out to logo.

00:06:11

Jason- Mikes house lights suited up. All five of the people you just went on this emotional journey with were

00:06:17

Jason- standing there in front of the the audience and it was it was like chill city right. And like those are the kind of

00:06:23

Jason- things like and there wasn't even like come on down give 10 bucks it was just like. They, they, they, they were silent,

00:06:30

Jason- they appeared and it was just that's all you needed. You really don't need much more when you you move

00:06:36

Jason- somebody to the emotional point that they need to open up to, to give, to invest, to buy. You know it's people

00:06:42

Jason- give with their hearts, they buy with their hearts and then post rationalize later with their heads.

00:06:48

Jason- So that was the trick man that that really worked well.

00:06:52

Crispino- So how do you come up with these videos, Jason? Like where do you get the inspiration or

00:06:57

Crispino- the ideas or the creativity to come up with these inspiring videos that actually can resonate

00:07:03

Crispino- with the kind of audience that you want to touch?

00:07:07

Jason- Yeah you know it's we we first get on a pre production or or discovery call with the client and a lot of times

00:07:12

Jason- especially in nonprofits they're like we want this and it needs to be this long and it needs to be this many board

00:07:18

Jason- members and this that and the other. And we say well let's ask you some questions first. What's the goal?

00:07:23

Jason- What would be the win for the video? Is it to fundraise or is it to attract new board members?

00:07:28

Jason- Because if it's A to attract new board members, OK we'll talk to some board members but if it's the fundraise tell,

00:07:34

Jason- tell us a story of how you help someone get from point A to point B. And so we'll, we'll we'll go through things

00:07:39

Jason- like that and then we'll ask some more questions like who's the target audience.

00:07:44

Jason- Those are all things that are relevant. And just like if you go to a doctor, you're not gonna be

00:07:48

Jason- ike, yeah, I need some of this stuff over here.

00:07:51

Jason- You, you write me some stronger Tylenol or whatever. Like you know, you don't go to the doctor and

00:07:56

Jason- say that you go to the doctor, you tell them your ailments, you tell them what's wrong and

00:08:01

Jason- he says let me make a recommendation based upon what I heard after he asked some follow up questions.

00:08:06

Jason- So I think that's the main difference between US and and GWC as we call them. As with cameras who just,

00:08:11

Jason-you know, show up and like. What do you want me to shoot? You know like what are we got some questions for

00:08:17

Jason- me like no we handle all of that. All the pre production we tell you who to find and then

00:08:21

Jason- a lot of it doesn't change a lot of the questions. If I had 10 questions to ask every person this year

00:08:27

Jason- I would get 10 completely different stories from from everybody.

00:08:30

Jason- It's just a matter of of how you pull it out. Most of our talent is real people

00:08:35

Jason- so I don't we don't script things. We don't say say this or say this and you know maybe

00:08:40

Jason- when there's an authority voice in the video. They'll say, oh, could you replace this word with

00:08:46

Jason- the parent organizations name? Like maybe that's like is the extent of our coaching just so they're on brand right.

00:08:52

Jason- But like everything else is just like. From my news background, asking the same question six different times

00:08:59

Jason- till it hits the story element that you need to just tell us successful story so there's no real.

00:09:05

Jason- No real crafting, so to speak. It's just how do we make this person comfortable enough to tell us

00:09:11

Jason- the true story and then put that in the right order that's gonna hold the tension to the end

00:09:17

Jason- and and hold the audiences gaze until the end. So that's that's yeah.

00:09:22

Crispino- All right, awesome. So how did you get into nonprofits in particular?

00:09:26

Crispino-I think that's like the focus area for your company. So why only nonprofits?

00:09:32

Jason- It's it's always important to pick a niche, especially in. And so I used to be like some would be like,

00:09:38

Jason- oh, who do you want? Who do you want to work for? Who do you want to work for?

00:09:43

Jason- And I'd be like people that need video. I don't know, you know? And that was my answer.

00:09:48

Jason- And then I met with the sales guy and sales trainer and he's like, you know who you could introduce me to?

00:09:55

Jason- I want to be introduced to business owners, run their own business, have 50 or more employees

00:10:00

Jason- and drive a nice car. I will never forget who he was looking for to this day because of how specific he was.

00:10:06

Jason- And I thought of two people right off the bat, and I'm like, wait wait, one has 50,

00:10:11

Jason- but they rent, they they don't own the buildings. Is that OK?

00:10:15

Jason- And like I realized like the Jedi mind trick he just did on the out work, like he doesn't care, you know,

00:10:21

Jason- it's like it's someone that could hire him right? So when you niche down A people remember it

00:10:27

Jason- better B it's a it becomes your specialty. And now we specialize in those mission moments.

00:10:32

Jason- Right before the big ass get at nonprofit galas. But C, the real reason is those are the stories that we want to tell. Selfishly, like.

00:10:40

Jason- I left the news to tell the stories that were actually going to make an impact in the world that somebody could watch and be inspired by,

00:10:48

Jason- that somebody could be changed by. And now like you know working with nonprofits from three years ago,

00:10:54

Jason- four years ago, I'll some of those people leave and go to other nonprofits and remember us and call us up.

00:11:00

Jason- And like I remember I used to like the organization I work for when when I signed up to work there.

00:11:06

Jason- And I saw your piece at a gala and that's when I fell in love with the organization because I understood

00:11:12

Jason- the mission and these were employees that had worked there and sacrificed their life and salary for this move.

00:11:19

Jason- It didn't become. Clear until they saw a story of impact. In the proper order, with the right emotion,

00:11:25

Jason- with the right pauses. Like, yeah, you know, we, we, we all have stories, but not everyone of us knows how to, like,

00:11:32

Jason- set it up to keep, to hold the room's attention, right. Like, I even struggle with that. I can do that in editing,

00:11:38

Jason- but like, it's hard, right? So yeah, yeah, it's there's a structure to it. And if if we apply that structure right,

00:11:45

Jason- we can not only help the nonprofits raise more money, but we can help them get known, get awareness,

00:11:51

Jason- get, get. They don't have. Branding, it's frowned upon for them to really market. Like you give a dollar,

00:11:57

Jason- they should give a dollar to the homeless. That's what we all think right. But like yeah how is every other company successful?

00:12:05

Jason-How's wishups is how much marketing dollars have you put into this company to make it 6?

00:12:10

Jason- I found you on IG ad, right. Like and if you weren't advertising, you know the companies just roll over and die. So like that,

00:12:17

Jason- that's why like they they need this and they need someone to tell them it's OK, it's OK to market.

00:12:24

Jason- It's OK to to tell the stories of impact.

00:12:27

Crispino- Yeah, I've seen a couple of videos, and yes, even I was touched by it.

00:12:30

Crispino- So I I must say the storytelling element is really relevant or it's really relevant over there in the videos that you make.

00:12:37

Crispino- So how did you get the knack of storytelling? Like, were you always a storyteller or a good salesperson?

00:12:43

Crispino- I believe storytelling also, you need to be good at sales for it or you need to be a good narrator for it.

00:12:48

Crispino- So what skills do you have to develop to become a good storyteller?

00:12:53

Jason- It was a process. It was a it was a long process from failure, learning from failure mainly.

00:12:59

Jason- And they just say get out there and fail fast. And that's the difference between, you know, Abraham Lincoln and

00:13:06

Jason- all these great people and Steve Jobs. Like they they just, they fail and they fail fast.

00:13:11

Jason- They fail forward, but they keep going and most people give up too soon, right?

00:13:16

Jason- So I think it's the same with storytelling. I when I started in 07, I was great at telling a story visually.

00:13:23

Jason- I knew how to do it. I mean I wasn't great. I I grew into that myself. Like because from the movies

00:13:29

Jason- I watched, some of my favorite movies were like Aliens and predator and like,

00:13:33

Jason- don't they did not reveal the full breadth of the monster or the alien until the very end. And I was like,

00:13:40

Jason- I want to do that with my with my videos, right? Like, I don't want to show reveal the characters face until the end.

00:13:47

Jason- And that kind of inspired that. And then when I worked for the news, it was totally backwards. They're like, what are you doing?

00:13:54

Jason- You. Put those flames up front. I want to see the police cars in the the shot up vehicle up front.

00:14:00

Jason- Like we gotta hold people's attention. And it's a 62nd piece and I'm like, yeah, alright, it's a little different,

00:14:07

Jason- but I learned from that too and start. So now we start with the cold open, between that and Gary Vee, start with the cold open.

00:14:15

Jason- You hook them and then you bring them along on that journey, right? So that was, that was my expertise in storytelling,

00:14:22

Jason- telling a story visually. And somebody's walking here, they're sitting here, they're pondering,

00:14:28

Jason- they're getting up, they're taking. Actually, next, right. That was my area of expertise. But business partner,

00:14:34

Jason- I call him a story architect here he is the one that really crafts the story with words.

00:14:40

Jason- So when you have an interview like this one where we'll talk for 45 minutes an hour, you'll have 100.

00:14:46

Jason- You may have like 300 pages of transcript by the time you're done with that.

00:14:50

Jason- Where do you start with that? Yeah, you put that in a proper order in 3 minutes to

00:14:55

Jason- yeah, to effectively tell a story. So. We we read a lot of books too, and one of them, Donald Miller story brand,

00:15:02

Jason- was a big influence too, putting your client as a hero.

00:15:05

Jason- We used that same sort of structure and then just cobbling together different sources, we've kind of

00:15:11

Jason- stumbled into the story formula of that. Pixar uses Disney Pixar and they are masters at this, right?

00:15:18

Jason- There are seven elements to every successful Hollywood movie, and if they deviate from that.

00:15:23

Jason- It's it's not a successful movie. I'll just say that. How is it right? But it works for TV shows too.

00:15:29

Jason- And there's one overarching for the whole movie or show. But then you'll look every single scene has that same introduce a problem.

00:15:37

Jason- Ohh no. How are we going to solve this? It's not wrapped up to the end like if you go watch

00:15:43

Jason- a show where they wrap up in the middle, guess what? Changing the show.

00:15:47

Jason- Right. Like that's it, yeah.

00:15:48

Jason- That attention to the end. So there's there's a specific formula they used.

00:15:53

Jason- We just figured out how to reverse engineer it and put it with real people.

00:15:57

Jason- And then take that those questions and and engineer them to get each of those elements

00:16:02

Jason- that you see in a Hollywood movie in an actual real person interview to get the story out, extract the elements

00:16:09

Jason- that we need and then we'll put them in order later when we're sifting through 300 pages of transcripts. You know,

00:16:15

Jason- yeah, so that's that's a long story, but a lot of different sources.

00:16:20

Crispino- Amazing. Yeah. It's so interesting for me to learn. Actually. I had kind of a curveball question for you,

00:16:26

Crispino- so if say, we had to. Prepare a video as such for Wishup. What would be the story that we could talk about?

00:16:33

That's a great question that requires follow up questions. So I would ask you first what would be the goal of said video?

00:16:42

Crispino- Say, getting more clients.

00:16:44

Jason- Yes.

00:16:45

Crispino-Getting more signups. Clients just like yourself.

00:16:49

Jason- And secondly, who is your target audience?

00:16:54

Crispino- American entrepreneurs from the age 30 to 45.

00:16:59

Jason- So I think you just answered your own question.

00:17:02

Jason- We could do like a commercial and be like, ohh, I see a guy with a laptop. I'm stressed. I'm overwhelmed.

00:17:08

Jason- I wish somebody was here to help me with my visit. Like you could do the cheesy route.

00:17:13

Jason- Yeah, which is cool and would take it would be fun to produce and it would be nice.

00:17:18

Jason- But like at this point that is white noise and authenticity rules.

00:17:22

Jason- So what I would recommend is finding that exact profile that you just talked about and.

00:17:27

Jason- And putting them in an interview situation and then seeing what their experience is.

00:17:32

Jason-Because that person's going to have the same problems that I as an entrepreneur have who may be

00:17:38

Jason- looking for help or may not even know I need help, which I didn't know I needed until,

00:17:43

Jason- like, I saw an ad and I started thinking about it, right. And like, you know, those everyday tasks that you struggle with,

00:17:50

Jason- you know, I I was really hung up on those. And there were certain things that were just not much strength,

00:17:56

Jason- but I wasn't ready for that full time. Employee to bring on. And like where do you even start with interviewing and vetting.

00:18:04

Jason- And I've been on indeed for so long and it's just it's a struggle right? Like it is. I'm feeling that pain because I've been there.

00:18:11

Jason- So you want to interview somebody who looks and sounds like your ideal prospect.

00:18:16

Jason- So if you have one of those that you've that is a client already for for profit.

00:18:21

Jason- I tell them find somebody who's your ideal client already from within your ranks who's had a good experience.

00:18:27

Jason- We'll sit down and we'll talk with them but not like it's not going to be like.

00:18:32

Jason- Ohh, tell us about your experience with which it's going to be. Tell us your story.

00:18:37

Jason- Tell us how you started this business, the blood, sweat and tears that you put in it. Now tell me about the struggles that you've had.

00:18:45

Jason- They are the hero of the story. They have the same struggles that your target audience is gonna have.

00:18:51

Jason- And then who do they look to for a solution to this? They're Yoda. They're Obi Wan Kenobi, right?

00:18:57

Jason- They're guide here was Misha. And that's how we position it.

00:19:00

Jason- The here you're just hearing a story of somebody who looks and sounds like you.

00:19:05

Jason- But surprise, there's a surprise guide in there that really helped them to where they wanted to be, where they needed to be.

00:19:12

Jason- So that's how I would position it if we were going to do a piece for wish up finding your ideal.

00:19:18

Jason- Client the one you want more of, talk to him and then.

00:19:23

Jason- Create a piece centered around his story with a little bit of authority sprinkled in from you guys.

00:19:29

Jason- And then most businesses say, well, we actually have 3 targets, 3 verticals at least, right?

00:19:34

Jason- Like, yeah, who's your next one? Let's talk about them. Guess what, that's a completely different video

00:19:40

Jason- that's going to target a completely different and maybe in a completely different set of aspend

00:19:45

Jason- demographics that you're going to put that in, right. So absolutely, that's when we,

00:19:50

Jason- whenever we work with corporate, it's always in in retainer because they always.

00:19:54

Jason- Have like more than one target audience that they're trying to residential commercial you know like yeah so that's.

00:20:00

Jason- That's my high level, what I would go over on a discovery call with you and then.

00:20:05

Crispino- Amazing.

00:20:06

Jason- Yeah.

00:20:07

Crispino- Yeah, yeah, I think I I should take this up with Neelesh.

00:20:11

Crispino- You could definitely consider making a video for Wishup as well, for sure. Awesome.

00:20:18

Crispino- So Jason, what's the biggest challenge that you faced while creating a video for a client?

00:20:28

Jason- The biggest challenge, I think the biggest challenges are always in the beginning where there's

00:20:34

Jason- that education curve because they always want to do with what they know.

00:20:38

Jason- They always want to go with what they know. So, you know, I had somebody e-mail me the other day,

00:20:44

Jason- a nonprofit, and they put out an RFP. They wanted to interview 27 board members. And I'm like, why do you want more?

00:20:52

Jason- Board members what, what's the goal here? Are you trying to attract more board members?

00:20:57

Jason- What what are you trying to do here and you don't know you know so the biggest hurdle is that education and

00:21:04

Jason- getting them to trust us in our process in the first call and it it's. Look, no, we're not going to talk to all 20 or 30 of your board members,

00:21:13

Jason- because I hate to say this, but nobody cares. I know it's your 30th, I know it's your 40th. I know what you're 75th anniversary.

00:21:21

Jason- Guess what? Nobody cares. You know who cares? Your board. Yeah, the people who already support you.

00:21:27

Jason-  And if you're trying to reach somebody who doesn't, let's tell a story of impact, whether in in nonprofit or in for profit.

00:21:35

Jason-  Like how did you change this? Your clients life, the person you serves their their life nonprofit. Corporation.

00:21:42

Jason- How did you make a difference in your customer's life?

00:21:45

Jason- You know like how what show me that story of impact on both sides and that education. It's usually an hour long talk.

00:21:52

Jason-  Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't but you know that's that's usually the biggest challenge is just getting to

00:22:00

Jason-  people to out of their comfort zone and like I know you've done this scripted stuff before and it might have

00:22:07

Jason-  worked 20 years ago but. Were hit with like 4810 thousand pieces of of advertising and marketing a day,

00:22:13

Jason- like down to your like your coffee mug or your Starbucks and all like all.

00:22:23

Crispino- Absolutely.

00:22:18

Jason- So what are you going to do to stand out in the white noise, tell a story like everybody else?

00:22:24

Jason- BS meters are through the roofs, right. So we have to tell something that's gonna resonate with people,

00:22:31

Jason- that's gonna be authentic and that's that's real people's story and that's sometimes we'll even break the 4th wall

00:22:38

Jason- and show the whole crew to show like hey, this is a real person sitting in front of a real camera crew.

00:22:44

Jason-Like we didn't make this up this there's no script here. You know like yeah. We go to great lengths to make sure

00:22:51

Jason- that it's all it's authentic as possible down to like leaving umms and us in the video for for certain segments.

00:22:58

Jason- A lot of those are trapped out to make people sound. Confident. Sometimes you want that long pause where people are like,

00:23:06

Jason- wow, I never really thought about it that way, you know? So.

00:23:10

Crispino- Just interest.

00:23:11

Jason- Whatever we could do to make it authentic as possible.

00:23:16

Crispino- Cool. So that that's your challenge with the client.

00:23:19

Crispino- How, how how was it working through the pandemic for you? Did you face any challenges working

00:23:24

Crispino- through the pandemic and the recession which is currently in America?

00:23:29

Jason- Oh yeah, Pandemic was wrong. It was. It was just. A lot of our stuff was based around live events,

00:23:35

Jason- and live events went away, so you kind of had to pivot. Everybody did virtual, you know, sending

00:23:41

Jason- crew for even a few brave companies who wanted to do it, like sending crew to make sure your crew is OK

00:23:48

Jason- with it. But innovation was born out of that one because I had a big client, a big brand name client that

00:23:54

Jason- I did not want to miss out on. And two days before the shoot I had tested positive for COVID and I was like.

00:24:01

Jason- I'm so lucky, though, that I had like I have a solid crew, and I sent two guys up to Boston and I invested in the teleprompter

00:24:09

Jason- and I I gave him my iPad. And I'm like, here's what I'm gonna do. I'm going to come through zoom, and the person's

00:24:16

Jason- going to look at the camera, but I'm going to, they're just going to see me on the zoom call. And by that point,

00:24:23

Jason- we were starting to get so familiar with zoom calls. What happened was crazy. Like they looked at the camera and

00:24:30

Jason- they were comfortable looking directly at the camera. Like like I'm looking at you and I'm like, how are they even

00:24:37

Jason- more comfortable than just looking at me in the room? And it works so well that it's stuck. Now. All of our interviews are

00:24:45

Jason- I come in on zoom, even if I'm in the next room, most of the time I'm in the next room coming in on zoom, and

00:24:51

Jason- I have them look directly at the camera, which is me on a zoom call, and then there's another camera off to the side for

00:24:59

Jason- like a tight close up further. You know, whatever. But like, yeah, that changed our whole process.

00:25:05

Jason- So it was tough, you know, like a couple pivots, some virtual events. Innovation was all born out of that.

00:25:12

Jason- And we survived, you know. And as far as our session goes now I maybe will feel it, but it's business is like is great for me it's it's.

00:25:20

Jason- Just about to start to be booming,you know

00:25:22

Crispino- that's it, that's it. Yeah. Yeah. Awesome.

00:25:25

Crispino- That's a great story. I mean, even Wishup really picked up during the pandemic. It worked really well for us because

00:25:33

Crispino- everything went virtual. So when was the time, like when did you decide to hire a virtual assistant?

00:25:39

Crispino- Was it like after the pandemic? Or during the pandemic.

00:25:43

Jason- So I think I I had invested in, we invested in an office space like 2019 and we were kind of growing and expanding

00:25:50

Jason- and we had a few temporary people in there and then the work kind of dried up, but not really because of the pandemic,

00:25:58

Jason- just because of being an entrepreneur and being that up and down like with like we're like Oh no, we got to sell and

00:26:05

Jason- we sell, sell, sell, sell and then we're executing and we forgot that we should be keeping. We should keep selling rights.

00:26:13

Jason- And then it was like. I had one because a lot of freelancers struggle with this too. It's like I'm so busy, don't talk to me or.

00:26:21

Jason- Does anybody love me? Like those are the two extremes that you go through and. I think for me that was it.

00:26:27

Jason- After the end of 2019, we had this office space. Nobody was in it. My son was born January 5th, 2020,

00:26:34

Jason- and it was nobody was in the office for like 6-8 months. And then when I came back it was just me, like once a

00:26:41

Jason- week in there, I was like, it's space still worth it. But at that point we had gone through

00:26:47

Jason- enough boom and bust cycles that I was like, that's it, I'm done. And I realized where I was lacking was follow-ups.

00:26:54

Jason- Generating leads and follow-ups. And I did not realize that virtual assistants would be able to generate leads for you.

00:27:01

Jason- And that was quite revolutionary to me that they could scour LinkedIn if you gave him a target audience and

00:27:08

Jason- come up with, yeah, a list of people, way more than you'd be able to call on a day.

00:27:13

Jason- Like, sit still adds that list every day. I'm like, bro, stop. Like, I had just too many people.

00:27:20

Jason- He's got like 300 per sheet and like four or five sheets. And I'm like, OK, wow, slow down.

00:27:25

Jason- So every day, like if if there's no work as default is to go and find more of the target audience.

00:27:31

Jason- So yeah, that was revolutionary to me. But then also scheduling the call for me and I'm like, he's in my LinkedIn.

00:27:39

Jason- So when I get somebody to the point where they're like, yeah, that'd be great. How call.

00:27:44

Jason- Awesome. What's a good this these days work for me. What's a good e-mail address for you?

00:27:50

Jason- I have somebody from my team send it up and then, you know, sits in there, he takes over his me and he's like,

00:27:57

Jason- we've got Tuesday. Between 3:00 and 4:00 eastern and he'll he'll send the invite and set it up so it reminds both of us.

00:28:04

Jason- And then we'll get on and I say, OK, we have to take notes. I go in HubSpot and take notes.

00:28:10

Jason- So he'll create the profile for me with their link to their profile and LinkedIn and then start

00:28:16

Jason- start filling out that profile for me that that client prospect profile.

00:28:21

Jason- And then I'll take notes or I'll record the call and then have him take some shorthand notes from the recording

00:28:28

Jason- and everything just goes into a process now and he helps me with the follow-ups and that that's that was key for me like

00:28:36

Jason- having a sales assistant, but then like also when. Prospects turn into customers. It was another bottleneck for me.

00:28:43

Jason- I was like, I've got three people who want contracts. I can't even write them up right now.

00:28:49

Jason- So I trained him how to write RSW's and we the key was making them very. Very boilerplate.

00:28:54

Jason- So there's a few things that change, like the dates and the amounts and the date due dates of of payments and stuff.

00:29:01

Jason- But they're all in like double bowl. So Sid can go through and replace the Double Bowl based off of the.

00:29:08

Jason- The formula we've created so like if you want to book a shoot tomorrow takes three weeks to get everybody together

00:29:15

Jason- for a pre production call, then another three weeks to find the person you're going to interview, then another three weeks for production.

00:29:24

Jason- So like all of that was built into a formula that sits able to follow and we even have an excel sheet.

00:29:30

Jason- So like if they're production date is this day, they're deliverable date is going to be this day and fills out the contract

00:29:38

Jason- based on that. So there are a couple of things that happen simultaneously but one was was filling.

00:29:44

Jason- Bringing on someone, a contractor, to help with our process, and once we did that, a lot of the stuff

00:29:50

Jason- I passed off to my VA became a lot easier like hey, we need an SOW this amount, this start date. Go and like that

00:29:57

Jason- could be a voice note right. And all of a sudden I have a draft in 30 minutes in my my slack of of the contract that

00:30:04

Jason- I can send there's a few tweaks right but voice notes and then I send those those out.

00:30:10

Jason- OK Jason they signed this OW you know what to do next. And he does the invoicing where the line item is for that package right.

00:30:17

Jason- And and ask them for their billing address and stuff and fills that out in QuickBooks and

00:30:23

Jason- then sends that off to him and then they'll be like hey this guy hasn't paid yet. You want me to ping them with their reminder

00:30:31

Jason- and that's like, yes, OK, let's take the part where you say you gonna break their kneecaps out, see it and then. She's always nice.

00:30:40

Crispino- She said. You've given me so many new ideas.

00:30:42

Crispino- I didn't know you could use a virtual assistant for so many different tasks as well. That's amazing,that's amazing.

00:30:48

Jason- We, come up with new stuff all the time.

00:30:51

That's amazing, man. I mean, you're literally automated your whole business. Like,

00:30:55

I mean, yeah, I can just see the benefit for you as well from a point of view and busy entrepreneur because these are the tasks

00:31:02

that would usually otherwise slow you down. Yeah, imagine if you would have to do all these tasks or your partner

00:31:08

would have to do these tasks. But yeah, that's amazing. I think we can use this as a case study for Wishup as well.

00:31:15

Jason- I'll tell you two more things. Kind of weird. One really weird thing I haven't doing now is our LinkedIn posts.

00:31:22

Jason- I have a copywriter, right? Those posts every day and he interviews me weekly and then he writes

00:31:28

Jason- the post for the week out in a format that people will understand. I read something on LinkedIn where they said a sending

00:31:35

Jason- text and descending. Next really works to capture the eye. So like maybe one word here, 2 words here, 3 words here 4.

00:31:42

Jason- So like, really draws you into read. Yeah, so I'm like Sid , you wanna take a stab at this? He's creating this word art for me.

00:31:48

Crispino- Ohh, beautiful!

00:31:50

Jason-. People's eye where you wanted to go, right?

00:31:54

Jason- And the other thing was when I first started my business in 07, I I did a lot of it on personal credit.

00:32:01

Jason- And that destroyed my personal credit business, destroyed my personal credit. Sid has been helping me with just the credit cleanup

00:32:09

Jason- and this is like outside of the scope of work, but just something like yeah whatever you need man.

00:32:15

Jason- Like alright, you you treat me like business part of the business, I'm gonna treat you like. So even just down to the tips of like

00:32:23

Jason- we need to call this creditor or send them a letter and we need to talk to this person too because as when we're looking

00:32:30

Jason- at my wife and I are looking for a house, like that's something that we need to clean up. But he's like you know what

00:32:38

Jason- I have this this secret skill I used to work. For a collection company, and they are the devil don't work for them. I don't know

00:32:45

Jason- if you wanna cut that out but he he's said here here are some tips that I've learned so he's been helping me and

00:32:52

Jason- like in the setup on experience and and three credit card companies to to do that and I was able to justify that as

00:32:59

Jason- a business expense using some of his time for that because the business is the one who used my personal credit and like brought it down

00:33:07

Crispino- Brought you over there.

00:33:09

Jason- Yeah, so. I've been able to get it way back up since, but there's just a few things.

00:33:14

Jason- A few items like letters, contact stuff, people we have to contact and finish cleaning it up.

00:33:20

Jason- But like, that was a daunting task for me that had been sitting there idle for years.

00:33:26

Jason- And even I found that even if the VA isn't or wasn't an expert, like cities in this area like to have somebody task

00:33:34

Jason- with that and to hold you accountable for what they need. Hmm. Yeah, that's that's huge.

00:33:40

Jason- Sometimes you just need that push, that accountability.

00:33:44

Crispino- Yeah, absolutely. I think we all need a year now in our lives. Ohh, you got two from from Wishup?

00:33:52

Jason- Yeah, yeah. Crispino- Who who's the other one?

00:33:56

Crispino- You got the other one? Jason- I can't tell you about the other one. He's my secret, VA.

00:33:59

Crispino- Ohk OK yeah I don't know what the other one.

00:34:02

Jason- The other ones, Davish

00:34:04

Crispino-Davish, OK.

00:34:05

Jason- He specializes in SEO, ads spend. And basically our markets, so. He's been holding my feet to the fire

00:34:11

Jason- about getting him blogs, new blogs. Crispino- that contain pockets. Jason- and, yes, your keywords.

00:34:16

Jason- Yeah, he's been researching keywords, our keywords, but then changed them to the trending keywords. What's high?

00:34:23

Crispino- Yeah.  Jason- And I noticed that those get updated every month. He suggested that I take my LinkedIn posts

00:34:29

Jason- and post them to our Google profile. And I was like, that's weird. And then he explained it that, like,

00:34:36

Jason- it's good for Google to see activity on your profile. So, like, if you look us up, beard and bowler, you'll see.

00:34:43

Jason- All of my LinkedIn posts there and there's activity with legit five days a week on Google.

00:34:49

Crispino- That's my business you're talking about. Google my business.

00:34:52

Jason- Google My Business. Yeah, it's photos. It got videos. So our rankings have gone up on on Google and SEO.

00:34:58

Jason- And if I can get it together, I'm looking at like a second copywriter now to help keep up with with

00:35:05

Jason- the demands that he has for me but against the accountability to just like I need those blogs. Let's let's keep writing.

00:35:13

Jason- Yeah let's keep doing stuff right now we we we just launched a YouTube shorts campaign yesterday. Crispino-That’s beautiful.

00:35:21

Jason- Yeah, and yeah, they the beauty of shorts is they're like Instagram stories, but they live there and if you tag them properly.

00:35:29

Jason- Good SEO for the second most popular search engine in the world. So now he's tagging him up before

00:35:35

Jason- we post them on on YouTube and handling that for us. So and even the closed captioning please open this out with.

00:35:43

Jason- So yeah that's that's my secret secret weapon right there. Damage.

00:35:48

Crispino- That's amazing. Yeah, I've seen your LinkedIn game and it's really like a notch above all.

00:35:53

Crispino- So yeah, I've been taking a few tips from your LinkedIn game.

00:35:59

Jason- Don't try and do it yourself. Hire an expert to help.

00:36:02

Crispino- Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. We we've been behind Neelesh to hire a copywriter as well.

00:36:07

Crispino- So I'm gonna show him this podcast. I'm gonna tell him. Neelesh we need a copywriter right now.

00:36:13

Jason- And it's not even just to write random stuff. Like all the stuff is people like whoa what happened?

00:36:19

Jason- Like it's it's really I don't know how you said it but like it was so it is all my words. It is just put the same way like

00:36:25

Jason- we do for exactly exact same thing but we don't do that with with short form social media posts like we need an expert so like

00:36:33

Jason- it's their story. But instead of 45 minutes of raw footage, you're seeing the three minutes of selecting the right order

00:36:39

Jason- that's going to help you understand better their story. So my call today with the copywriters and would be like 30 minutes,

00:36:46

Jason- and I'll have a couple of questions and I'll ramble on like I'm doing now about business life and the other.

00:36:52

Jason- And he takes that part and puts it in the right order where people in a consumable format emoji is proper spaces and breaks.

00:36:59

Jason- So people can consume that when they're doing the scroll feed and just kind of skimming your post, right?

00:37:05

Jason- Yeah, and then he's like get get a selfie. I'm not gonna selfies like. Yep, still pictures are working best right now like.

00:37:12

Crispino- Then yeah, that's yeah.

00:37:14

Jason- That's what it is. But I'm like, if I didn't have that accountability of him interviewing me weekly, it just wouldn't get done.

00:37:21

Jason- So it's on the calendar, you know, usually weekly and then Mondays we set up a time to go over the posts.

00:37:27

Jason- And there's a few technical things that I adjust probably because I didn't answer them well in the first question,

00:37:34

Jason- but like. That's the process. So yeah, I knowing all that goes into creating a post and like,

00:37:39

Jason- I don't know why I ever thought I could do this myself. Ohh and stand out still, you know?

00:37:44

Crispino- It looks easy, yeah. I mean, from the offset it does look like a small task, like it doesn't require much, but there's actually a science that goes into it.

00:37:52

Jason- Yeah, yeah, yeah exactly down to the formatting I found out.

00:37:57

Crispino- Yeah. So what's your take, Jason, on remote work?

00:38:00

Crispino- Like you already have two VAs think your copywriter also is virtual, right?

00:38:05

Crispino- Remote, yeah. So would you consider hiring or maybe making your whole company and let's say beard and

00:38:12

Crispino-bowler goes to 10 million a year revenue company in the next year. Would you consider hiring a all of your employees

00:38:19

Crispino- virtual assistants like remote work or would you still stick to the current format of having them in house?

00:38:28

Jason- So I only have two guys that are in house and at the office. I'm not even at the office,

00:38:33

Jason- but they're at the office right now and there's there's nothing quite like that person in person experience and

00:38:40

Jason- collaboration. And I don't. The key is I don't force them to be there because I know this topic is hot and like

00:38:46

Jason- one of my posts got featured on LinkedIn news and it had these random people like, you're everything that's wrong with

00:38:53

Jason- America and I'm like, bro, I don't force them to go to the office they like. Going to the office because it's yeah,

00:39:00

Jason- less distracting than living with their roommates. So their family like, they like that focused time and the culture we've built,

00:39:07

Jason- it's like 2-3 o'clock. It's like, alright guys, screening time. We all gather around one editor's computer and like yeah let's,

00:39:14

Jason- let's watch, watch this and offer suggestions. So those are exciting times. Like we'll get lunch together.

00:39:20

Jason- Yeah but fifty, more than 50% of our workforce is remote right now. Even our business development guy we hired,

00:39:27

Jason- he's in Mississippi now from New Jersey, but in Mississippi. And yesterday I was like, I gotta go. Kwami insisted on getting

00:39:34

Jason- some Jamaican food today, some Caribbean food today. So I gotta go eat. And he's like, oh, I'm so jealous. I'm like, don't forget,

00:39:42

Jason- we're working towards getting you here. Yeah, I think there's a good mix to have like some, some people should be remote and

00:39:49

Jason- and some people should be in person, especially when it's something highly technical like video editing and video editing the way

00:39:56

Jason- that we do it, which is two or three notches above the standard. Not saying that to brag, but like we have a very, I hold myself to

00:40:04

Jason- that high standard, so. Yeah, it just to stand out. So I think some people should be in person, but even that team is just like,

00:40:11

Jason- hey, I'm gonna need to work from home day today. And I'm like, dude, I understand. I'm here with my 3 year old screaming right now.

00:40:19

Jason- So like you take, you want two or three days, you work from home two or three days.

00:40:24

Jason- I think it's important to have that flexibility and then seeing what the team wants, like they could work from home five days a week, right?

00:40:32

Jason- But they like to be in the office. But having that flexibility, I think it's huge.

00:40:38

Crispino- Absolutely. Well, Jason, this was an amazing podcast. I got to learn a lot and I I had fun having this podcast with you.

00:40:48

Jason- Yeah, it's a good time.

00:40:49

Crispino-I hope you enjoyed it as well. So before you leave Jason, I'd just like to ask you how was your experience or

00:40:55

Crispino-how was your experience been so far working with "Wishup"'like the entity as a whole?

00:41:01

Jason- It's been solid like there's there's been no complaints like

00:41:05

Jason-I I've had a great experience like I I saw that Instagram ad and I haven't looked back since and

00:41:10

Jason- you know just the compliments that I get my copywriter my LinkedIn copywriter like is he's based in the UK and

00:41:17

Jason- he's like mate Sid is so amazing where did you. I don't know where you found this guy does everything

00:41:22

Jason-I needed like and then my cinematographers because now he's coordinating. Helping to coordinate with shoots and got everybody

00:41:30

Jason- on the calendar. So, like, because there's six people that come and some of them are freelancers, right? So he has a calendar for

00:41:37

Jason- each to see when they're available and then he'll just automatically pass that on to the client or availability, right. And our cinematographer jokes,

00:41:46

Jason- like, I can't wait for that day where we get to travel to India and have a shoot there.

00:41:51

Jason- We get to meet Sid and we're going to arrive at the airport.

00:41:54

Jason- There's going to be like 6 dudes. And we're going to be like, hey, which one are you, Sid?

00:42:00

Jason- And they're gonna be like, we are all Sid. Because.

00:42:04

Crispino- We do have quite a few sips out here.

00:42:07

Jason- It's like, just because it feels like he doesn't work with ten men sometimes.

00:42:12

Jason- But yeah, it's a it. It's been a huge help. And like he's involved in almost every aspect of the business now.

00:42:19

Jason- And like, he's built up that trust. So like there are certain things that just down to payroll. Like he runs payroll for us, right?

00:42:28

Jason- And he gathers the hours and if people don't have their hours in on time, like, they'll ping them and be like, you gather the invoices, like.

00:42:37

Jason- The invoices go to him, so a lot of things would fall apart if he if he wasn't here so.

00:42:43

Jason- It's it's been integral now it's an integral part that I don't know if we can do without in the company so.

00:42:51

Crispino- That's amazing, Jason. Yeah, that that's I mean what we strive for.

00:42:56

Crispino- That was the mission of Neelesh and Vivek when they started off Wishup, not only provide good quality lifestyle

00:43:03

Crispino- for the Indian virtual assistance, but also to make life easier for entrepreneurs all across the world.

00:43:10

Crispino- So these kind of reviews really help us affirm that we are doing a good job.

00:43:16

Jason- Yeah, I love this mission. And I think he should speak on that war too, when he talks about

00:43:22

Jason- how most people would have to move to the city to get a job, a decent job.

00:43:27

Jason- And now they could stay in their village and they could. All that pay just trickles down to their guy.

00:43:33

Jason- Apparently everybody in India has a guy. So I'm like, I gotta step my game up, but like, go trickles down to everybody in the household, right?

00:43:42

Jason- Yeah, the village itself. So what they, what they've created is. What you guys have created is pretty. Pretty awe inspiring

00:43:50

Jason- I think to to to that. So yeah you know I know the only thing I would say is like don't limit it.

00:43:56

Jason- I know in the beginning they were saying like what's what's the scope of work for him and I'm like it's this

00:44:02

Jason- and that has evolved so much as I've just like. Passed off like what can you do this but can you do this can you do the even

00:44:10

Jason- if he can't he be like I will try Jason you know like it's just like that too like he he will try. So like the scope has gone from

00:44:18

Jason- like here what I originally thought to here so yeah I mean feel free to I would just tell people feel free to experiment and

00:44:26

Jason- see how much you can you can give to them and let you know if their bandwidth is too much but.

00:44:33

Crispino- Awesome, Jason, thanks so much for your kind words and for the amazing interview once again.

00:44:38

Crispino- And I wish you all the best for future and hopefully you grow to $100 million revenue company and you outsource all your virtual assistance from Wishup.

00:44:48

Jason- Could use another one soon I think, but yeah, we'll see.

00:44:53

Crispino- All right. Awesome. Thanks Jason for your time and speak soon.

Jason- Alright,Take care.